Prototype Philosophy - The Race Forums - A Social Network for Fans of the American Le Mans

Nick Koske · 10-26-2007, 09:17 PM

To let the P2s stay up front or take them down a notch to race with themselves. This is the conundrum of our time.

You have to admit the Audi/Porsche battle was exciting this year...I mean .9 sec after 1000 miles and .4 sec after 4 hours. I mean what else can you ask for??

Think for a minute if the P1s and P2s had a larger disparity in speed. Audi would have easily walked away with all the marbles in P1 and Penske Porsche doing the same in P2 (well maybe not quite as easy as Audi, but would've won the championship). Just as they did in reality, but we wouldn't have had the fights at the front end of the field, that's no fun.

Sure in a perfect world we'd have grids of 50 with a dozen P1s and another dozen P2s. P1s could be set aside for factories (and privateers with cajones) and P2s could be set aside for the privateers. The factories would duke it out on the sharp end and make for good racing. But, that doesn't reflect reality...now does it. Well, the grids of 50 exist in LMS (sssshhhh...Brazil..what's that??), but it didn't necessarily correlate to exciting racing with Peugeot trouncing the field (if it wasn't for their lack of reliability it would have been worse). In the ALMS...well we all know the state of the ALMS.

Does having two set of rules (Heavier/more power, lighter/less power) both competing for overalls bring more diversity to those fighting for overall? I think it does and reality seems to show that as well with the Spyders and R10s. I don't think it's a coincidence that Porsche decide to build a P2 and now they're at the front of the field. Audi has simulation programs...I'm sure Porsche has similar ones that told them they could compete for overalls by optimizing a P2.

Sure you could simply say P2s should race with themselves, but I for one am not willing to give up the great racing we've seen in the last year.

Administrator · 10-27-2007, 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nick Koske

To let the P2s stay up front or take them down a notch to race with themselves. This is the conundrum of our time.

You have to admit the Audi/Porsche battle was exciting this year...I mean .9 sec after 1000 miles and .4 sec after 4 hours. I mean what else can you ask for??

Think for a minute if the P1s and P2s had a larger disparity in speed. Audi would have easily walked away with all the marbles in P1 and Penske Porsche doing the same in P2 (well maybe not quite as easy as Audi, but would've won the championship). Just as they did in reality, but we wouldn't have had the fights at the front end of the field, that's no fun.

Sure in a perfect world we'd have grids of 50 with a dozen P1s and another dozen P2s. P1s could be set aside for factories (and privateers with cajones) and P2s could be set aside for the privateers. The factories would duke it out on the sharp end and make for good racing. But, that doesn't reflect reality...now does it. Well, the grids of 50 exist in LMS (sssshhhh...Brazil..what's that??), but it didn't necessarily correlate to exciting racing with Peugeot trouncing the field (if it wasn't for their lack of reliability it would have been worse). In the ALMS...well we all know the state of the ALMS.

Does having two set of rules (Heavier/more power, lighter/less power) both competing for overalls bring more diversity to those fighting for overall? I think it does and reality seems to show that as well with the Spyders and R10s. I don't think it's a coincidence that Porsche decide to build a P2 and now they're at the front of the field. Audi has simulation programs...I'm sure Porsche has similar ones that told them they could compete for overalls by optimizing a P2.

Sure you could simply say P2s should race with themselves, but I for one am not willing to give up the great racing we've seen in the last year.

I agree.. it's two opposing philosophies striving for the same outcome. What's wrong with that. I'm sure there are purists out there that disagree, but you can't argue that the competition wasn't any less than spectacular.

Sadly, I think we'll see the ACO muck it up before the wheels down at Sebring. We'll just have to wait and see.

JT

HORNDAWG · 10-27-2007, 01:46 AM

Race with themselves.
The racing, by circumstance, this year at the front between the 3 factory efforts (mostly two) was fierce. Regardless of what some pundit's state this is still a racing format that is set forth and governed by the ACO. Granted if IMSA/ALMS decide to not follow them that is their right, but how long will the ACO let this go on? Is this not supposed to be the ALMS? The ACO set forth at the beginning of the 07 season the means to adjust the performance between the 4 individual classes with ART. 19 at 1.5%. Also there is the stated desire of the ACO committee execs that the P-2 class is for Privateers and although there is no rule that states that, there are rules in effect and being implimented that encourage the factory efforts to concentrate on P-1 by taking the possibility of winning overall away from the P-2 class. The ACO has already announced that they are making some adjustments in P-1 between petrol and diesel. What the ALMS needs to do is adjust the P-1 petrol/diesel regulations to bring the petrol cars up to the performance of the diesels, and not promote the factory P-2's as the competitors for the diesels. This will also set/adjust the competition level in P-1 for when there is a factory P-1 petrol effort in 09. This is no longer a 675/900 rule set. It is an LMP1/LMP2 rule set. The ACO changed it for a reason. The model is working as there are more "works" teams showing up in P-1 and will continue to do so by all reports. And the ACO is not mucking up anything. They are continuing on the plan that they have laid out to hopefully culminate at/with the 2010 regulations juncture. IMO of course.

L.P.

RennSport · 11-13-2007, 10:36 AM

I disagree. I think the RS Spyders should be able to get an outright win just like any other class, even though that's not really possible for GT2. That would just add more interest to Porsches amazing engineering capabilities.

mayk · 11-13-2007, 10:42 AM

conundrum....

Excellent use of the word!

I agree, I wish there would be no changes for P1 and P2, but think the ACO will once again do something that wil make us scratch our heads....like their 2008 schedule????

KM

bullitt_60 · 11-13-2007, 01:18 PM

The P675/P900 formula has finally come to fruition. However, the ACO must change the rules as this was not "their idea" this time. Their ego will get in the way of close racing and they do not care how the rules for one race affect an entire series.

Nick Koske · 11-13-2007, 01:26 PM

The ACO may do something...but I'm not sure the ALMS will follow and I personally don't think they should, coming of the best racing at the sharp end in years.

wrxinsc · 11-16-2007, 04:37 PM

Start adding some city tracks to the LMS season and I think we'll see similar results of that in the ALMS. I think it's in the best interest of the series as a whole for IMSA to adjust ACO regs for the tight tracks in the ALMS.

If I'm not mistaken, in order to be considered for an auto invite to Le Mans, the car has to be in full ACO spec. Is this correct?