OW unification

[Nick Koske]

Article in Autosport this morning: autosport.com - IRL News: Unified series 'closer than ever'

A groundbreaking merger between the Indy Racing League and Champ Car is closer than ever, claims IRL chief Tony George, amid reports that a deal has now been reached to unify the two American racing series.

George has offered free Dallara chassis and Honda engines to any Champ Car team that sign up for a full season of the combined series.

Each team would also receive $1.2 million (USD) as part of the IRL's team funding, and the Champ Car races at Long Beach, Edmonton and Surfer's Paradise would be added to the IRL schedule.

Looks like Panoz is on the wrong end of the deal

[BobN]

Atlantics may be a casualty as well. I suppose Champcar could sell Atlantics to IMSA. Looks like the Mazda ladder system is about to collapse.

[Hallen]

That is not a merger. That is Tony George being the corporate raider and trying a leveraged buyout.

The Panoz is a better car. The IRL has the big name teams and drivers. Only one race of theirs is worth a dime and that is only because of its history. The "Indie" name is the only thing that carries the IRL.

CHAMP car, even though they do too many of those stupid "Festivals of Speed" on lousy street course, still has the better tracks to race at and at least has a touch of class.

The Indie 500 needs to change anyway. They need to stop using the oval and start using the roval course like F1 uses. The IRL has proven over the last 10 years that open wheel cars have no place on an oval track of any kind. It is disaster waiting to happen with a whole lot of pain, agony and death that has already happened. It is only so long before one of those cars leaps over the cheese grater fence and into the crowd. What will Tony George be saying then?

The only way I want to see a merger is if they drop all of the oval tracks off the schedule. If they want to use both types of cars, go for it. I would assume everybody would switch to the Panoz pretty quickly though.

[John Thawley]

Originally Posted by BobN

Atlantics may be a casualty as well. I suppose Champcar could sell Atlantics to IMSA. Looks like the Mazda ladder system is about to collapse.

I'm not sure it would "collapse"... this is only one rung on the ladder. And, let's look at the top of the open wheel side of Mazda's system(s). Hmmmm.... congratulations, you've won a trip to lovely albeit unstable world of open wheel racing.

What irritates me about this whole open wheel scenario is WHY do promoters keep putting up with it? Why don't the look at the "better" more progressive forms of racing and start building their promotions and programs for the future?

JT

[Hallen]

Originally Posted by John Thawley

What irritates me about this whole open wheel scenario is WHY do promoters keep putting up with it? Why don't the look at the "better" more progressive forms of racing and start building their promotions and programs for the future?

JT

That is a good question John, and I think the answer is more simple than most would think. Multi-million dollar executives are just as gullible and naive as the rest of us. They react to name recognition just like we do.

Back when I was a kid, about the only open wheel race you saw on TV, ever, was the Indy 500 on Wide World of Sports (That poor ski jumper being shown wiping out for years and years, lol). I used to get really excited about the race because the cars were so cool (and they were back then). You associate open wheel cars and the excitement of that big race with, you guessed it, Indy cars. Hence, selling something like the IRL is one heck of a lot easier than something like the ALMS.

It doesn't matter that there is only one race in the IRL schedule that means anything. It doesn't matter that the ALMS is relevant, or green, or really showcases technology like no other series does.

Heck, you never heard about Le Mans on US TV 20 years ago. If you did, it was a short blurb on the news and you figured it was some quaint French thing that involved barrettes, cheese, and wine. That is a pretty big hill for ALMS to climb. I am convinced only the pure sports car racing fan in the US has any clue what ALMS really is.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Today there is word talks have stalled. If these idiots don't put their egos aside soon and do what's best for open wheel in North America they will become entirely irrelevant (almost there already) and spend their millions as they wither away in to oblivion. I was faithful for as long as I could be but this is ridiculous! Oh well, as bad as the news is in open wheel, the future is very exciting for the ALMS!

[Chris Clark]

Word is that TG is on his way to Japan to talk to Honda about moving the Motegi date which conflicts with Long Beach (which can't be moved). While Honda is on record of being in favor of a merger, they also may not want to give up the Motegi date (track is owned by Honda) in favor of Long Beach, which has been associated with Toyota for as long as I can remember. Until this is resolved: no merger. Even if it is resolved it is just one of many things that will have to fall into place for this to work for 2008.

I think this is the closest we have ever come to reunification, at least publically. If these morons screw it up this time I don't hink AOWR will survive much longer. What a shame.

What angers me is that if it DOES go through we are back to square one. The original CART: Road Courses, Street Courses, Super Speedways, and Short Ovals. Only difference being that instead of the team owners running the show as a board of directors, we have ONE man running the show: TG. Honestly, THAT is what I think this has been all about since the split. Control. Forget "The Vision" of an all oval racing series... TG wanted control. All of this crap could have been avoided had ego not been a factor.

In a perfect world the series would look like this:

60% Road/Street courses and Airport Circuits.
40% Super Speedways/ Short ovals.

Lose the European Rounds. Start the season in Australia at Surfers, move on to Motegi (Oval), and a round at Suzuka/Fuji, alternating years opposite the alternating years F1 races there. Then onto Long Beach for the start of the North American season, including Monterey and Mexico City, as well as Toronto, Mosport, and Montreal. Finish the year on the Indy road course.

22-24 races per year. Give or take.

Run the Dallara's for '08 and '09. Switch to the Panoz DP-01 (The Car of Tomorrow ) for 2010 and beyond. This gives Panoz awhile to develop and test an Oval package and manufacture enough cars to fill the grid on 2010 plus spares.

Keep the Honda engines and have Cosworth develop an N/A 3.5 litre V-8, as well as open up the series to other engine manufacturers in 2010.

Lose the Indy Pro Series and fold those competitors into Atlantics.

Also keep scheduling dates with ALMS, Grand-Am, and NASCAR for additional exposure.

Make the series relevant again. Keep talented American drivers in Open Wheel. Watch the American public wake up and realize that NASCAR sucks. Stir. Bake at 350° for 20 minutes ......... Watch NASCAR die.

Of course, thats just what I would do...keep in mind: I am not a complete moron, therefore I am not really qualified to manage an American Open Wheel Series.

[Magical Trevor]

I think the first thing that should be done by a new unified series is the formation of a public-service-style ad campaign:
"This is a North American race series. It runs the Indy 500 and a dozen or so other races. It is not Formula 1. Half of the drivers and cars are American, half are foreign."
People (new fans) will still need to know what American open-wheeled racing is for what is left of it after a merger to survive.
My father, an average NASCAR and moderate overall racing fan, still gets confused when he sees Champ Car.
"What is this if it's not F1?"

[johnlemans]

Gordon Kirby - The Way It Is:

This gives a good outline of how it should be.

I would use bioethanol instead of biodiesel. The cars would be aesthically like the DP01 but larger and with oval capabiities (think early 2000s Champ Cars). I'd have Panoz, Dallara, Lola and Riley supplying chassis.

Engines would be the traditional 2.65l V8 turbo to give that classic 'indycar' engine note (you know the one ) unlike the dull IRL engines. Engine suppliers would be Honda, Toyota, Ford, Chevrolet and whoever else wants to come and play. There would be some mechanism to stop one chassis/engine maker dominating. Tyres would be a slick Firestone spec tyre.

Re. the calendar this is what I would like to see:

1. Daytona (motorbike course)
2. Mexico City (Autodromo Hermanos Redriegeuz
3. Motegi
4. St Pete
5. Long Beach
6. Houston
7. Indy 500
8. Milwaukee
9. Rockingham (UK)
10. Montreal
11. Detroit
12. Portland
13. Toronto
14. Mid-Ohio
15. Road America
16. Michigan
17. Cleveland
18. Phoenox
19. Watkins Glen
20. Surfers Paradise
21. Laguna Seca
22. Fontana

[Hallen]

Originally Posted by johnlemans

Gordon Kirby - The Way It Is:

This gives a good outline of how it should be.


Re. the calendar this is what I would like to see:

1. Daytona (motorbike course) You mean the roval course?
2. Mexico City (Autodromo Hermanos Redriegeuz


5. Long Beach

7. Indy 500

10. Montreal
11. Detroit
12. Portland
13. Toronto
14. Mid-Ohio
15. Road America

17. Cleveland

19. Watkins Glen

21. Laguna Seca

Fixed it

I really doubt they can do even 13 races in the first few years. There are other road courses that would work too.

Part of the problem here is you need two completely different kinds of cars to work on both ovals and road courses. I think it will simply be too expensive in the long term to do both. It forces teams to invest in special cars and causes a lot more build time at the shop. You also almost need road course engineers and oval engineers. I think for this reason OWR in the US is doomed unless either ovals are dropped (and then I would watch it) or road courses are dropped ( in which case I will ignore it).

The month long qualifying for the Indy 500 is also a huge detractor from the season. It takes too long. People want to see races, not boring qualifying sessions that nobody understands anyway.

(BTW, this is one of my complaints about Le Mans too. It shuts down the ALMS for far too long at a point where excitement about the season is really growing. Then you wait over a month to finally see another race. This is especially bad for newer fans who don't know about Le Mans or don't want to watch a 24 hours race. They lose interest and don't watch the rest of the season... it just slips from their attention.

Don't get me wrong, I love the 24 hour and I don't see any way around it in this case, but it still hurts the series. NASCAR understands this. That is why they have very few two week breaks in their season. I am not saying ALMS should go that far, but a consistent two week schedule is important.)