Garra

[John Thawley]

Originally Posted by Todd Benne

The ideal situation would be to get some Guy, who has competed in both series to share their thoughts. It would be interesting to hear his perspective on the competition, level of racing, event comparisons, things like that.

I assure you, some "Guy" will probably NOT want to commit one way or the other considering the potential for a pay check in either series. And, I respect that. Plus he might risk losing his PR guy if he steps out of line. LOL

[Hallen]

Originally Posted by John Thawley

But.... considering you've acknowledged it's closer to all spec racing, wouldn't the presence of the GTs at least put SOME burden on the drivers to demonstrate they can THINK and drive fast?

Yes, most definitely. That is why I like GARA better when there are DP's and GT's on the same track.

Originally Posted by John Thawley

I don't think the yellows go away with the GTs.

No, they don't. You are right that a lot of yellows are caused... by yellows Bunching the field up, drivers trying to take advantage... yep it will lead to more yellows. What I am trying to say is that when you have multi-class racing, there is more opportunity for problems during longer stints because of the closure rates and the amount of passing that has to be done.

Originally Posted by John Thawley

Heck, the starts are separated by class, and yet, more times than not, there is a yellow on the first lap. Maybe the problem is a.) not enough "space" in the rules/technology for teams to show their abilities in developing the car and b.) not enough power to get out of one another's way?

You are probably right about that. Especially a).

Originally Posted by John Thawley

It's kind of like restrictor plate racing. The more you take out of the driver's hand, the less of a factor he becomes. I mean, that's one way to look at it.

JT

It depends a bit on what you mean by "take out of the driver's hand".
I look at it a couple of ways.

1) With pure spec racing then it is "all" driver and no car that makes the difference. You can however, always argue that the driver that can help the team setup the car best is always going to be a front runner. But, this is still the driver. A good team with a lot of experience will also make up this gap with superior car preparation.

2) The fewer things that can be adjusted, tweaked, modified on a car does remove the driver from the equation a bit because their feedback to that process is imperative. However, a really good team will probably have more impact in the case where more can be done than the drive will.

The really good driver will simply get the most possible out of any car they drive. At the level of ALMS and GARA DP's, most of the drivers are top notch so the difference is going to be very small. It then comes down to the team and the car. If the cars are all the same, then it comes down to the team (and of course the luck factor which always plays a roll). So in this sense, yes, the outcome is largely taken out of the driver's hands.

It is one reason I like the endurance aspect. The strategy, the planning, the ability to fight back from an early mistake, the durability of the cars, all of this adds to the interest and excitement. This part seems to be partially manufactured in GARA. I think ALMS is a bit more "pure" if you will, than GARA is on this point.

No form of racing is perfect. There are always limitations and places where the rules seem to get in the way of the racing. But, in this day and age where very small engines can put out extreme amounts of power and tires that are extremely sticky and advanced suspension capabilities, sooner or later you end up with the situation where the cars are too fast for the tracks and for the drivers. Slower cars usually lead to better and closer racing but is maybe less attractive to the fans.

I think that in a nutshell, GARA "dumbs it down" to achieve parity where the ALMS structure looks more towards technology innovations to overcome restrictions. I like the ALMS method better personally.

Sorry for the long winded and rambling thoughts. I know most of you don't need explanations on all of this

[John Thawley]

Sure.. I agree. Nor did I mean to take anything away from the drivers in GARRA. My main point and analogy was the cars not having the power to get out of their own way.

And for all their dumbing down, you really aren't seeing any Cinderella stories, with Joey Noname from EmptyPockets Motorsports dicing his way to the front of the pack.

I like the Rolex 24. For several years I've tried to keep an open mind about Grand Am. I've seen rays of hope... but after Mid-Ohio this year, and then witnessing the year-end finale at Utah, I'm left shaking my head in wonderment.

But, I'll withhold my judgement and see what next year brings as I'm sure I'll return to the World Center of Racing... Daytona International Speedway for the Rolex.

JT

[HORNDAWG]

The livery for the new GXP.R of Stevenson Motorsports looks like they should hit up the USPS for sponsorship. It looks like the Air Mail logo, pretty cool. I also think that it is a good change as the P&M/Katech GXP.R will be a very good car for them.

[mayk]

More about GARRA and good news for them with a 2008 Series Sponsor of Crown Royal® Cask No. 16TM....

Diageo and Grand-Am announced today that the ultra-premium Crown Royal® Cask No. 16TM whisky brand will be the presenting sponsor in the Grand-Am Rolex Sports Car Series commencing in 2008.

Press Release Here:

http://www.grand-am.com/News/Article.asp?ID=9297

[John Thawley]

It's the same sponsor just pimping a different brand. Kind of like kissing your sister,really. I've always felt this was simply a surcharge put on Crown Royal to allow them into the "Cup" series.

JT

[mayk]

"It's the same sponsor just pimping a different brand..."

Perhaps true, but it IS a sponsor....since 2003 I have heard at every State of the Series meeting, how hard the Series is working on obtaining a Series sponsor...

By now, you would have thought there was one World Class business out there that could make this work....Or is it perhaps, as was the case with the 'old watch sponsor' that just faded away, the Series is looking for too much?

Anway, no matter the reasons, GARRA has a sponsor 'presenting' the season.....

[John Thawley]

And some people "pay" to get a date. Others, may even blow one up.

Point is, you only judging this book by its cover. I'm suggesting GARRA has other motivations (or GARRA's parent) for hanging a name on the Series. I'd also suggest the same scenario with the name Rolex. After all, don't you think if these arrangements were financially lucrative we'd be seeing the result via better exposure, television, advertising, promotion etc. etc.? If they are in fact, "title" sponsors, show me the money. Paying sponsors want to see results.

[mayk]

After all, don't you think if these arrangements were financially lucrative we'd be seeing the result via better exposure, television, advertising, promotion etc. etc.?

Mmmm...could have sworn I saw a video clip on this subject.....

But I think you are missing my point JT, which is, the Rolex Series has a series sponsor for 2008 and the other sportscar series in NA does not. Pretty simple actually, no matter the smoke filled room deals and strong arm tactics that may be in play or 'threatened' to be played....

Fact #1
GARRA has a Series Sponsor

Fact #2
The ALMS, even after year after year being told this is being worked on, does not.

Now, do I care that the ALMS has not? Not really, would be nice, as it was great when it was Camel GT and Exxon....

KM

[John Thawley]

Originally Posted by mayk

After all, don't you think if these arrangements were financially lucrative we'd be seeing the result via better exposure, television, advertising, promotion etc. etc.?

Mmmm...could have sworn I saw a video clip on this subject.....

But I think you are missing my point JT, which is, the Rolex Series has a series sponsor for 2008 and the other sportscar series in NA does not. Pretty simple actually, no matter the smoke filled room deals and strong arm tactics that may be in play or 'threatened' to be played....

Fact #1
GARRA has a Series Sponsor

Fact #2
The ALMS, even after year after year being told this is being worked on, does not.

Now, do I care that the ALMS has not? Not really, would be nice, as it was great when it was Camel GT and Exxon....

KM

If you can't understand the importance of financial support in exchange for title sponsorship, YOU, my friend are the one missing the point. In fact, several of them. That's like having clients that don't pay. What is THE POINT?

I guess if it "looks" good.. then I guess they're all set. I just find it odd how when NASCAR signs a new sponsor, we hear all about the big dollars, the intricacies of the deal... and yada yada.

Let me ask you this... if you were campaigning a race team, would you put a title sponsor on the car if they didn't give you money?

The ALMS is smart not to take just any deal. Anyone.. ANYONE can sell at the lowest price. But I suggest, when you compete in the market place based on your "cheap price".. how do you respond when a competitor under bids you? There's nothing left. It's over.

You win customer loyalty by delivering quality service and products... VALUE.. return... NOT THE LOWEST PRICE.

JT