Honda / Brawn

[kwokjk]

Did Honda F1 use a Honda engine last year in 2008?

[Lane]

Yes.

Apparently you cannot post a response of less than 10 characters on this forum. Silly rule. In any event, I now have more than 10 characters.

[Canada ALMS fan]

Originally Posted by kwokjk

Did Honda F1 use a Honda engine last year in 2008?

The engine wasn't the problem last year, the chassis was a disaster. Brawn starting designing the current car late '07 and all development on Honda's car last year ended very early. It would be great to see them place well (or win) this weekend.

[kwokjk]

That's kinda what I don't get. Most people at work are saying how Brawn is making Honda look bad cause Honda couldn't do as good... but isn't it silly to compare when the engine and tires are different and so are the chasis rules??? I guess they say the speedtv commenator's agree with them... I'll leave that one alone if they believe those guys.

[Lane]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

The engine wasn't the problem last year, the chassis was a disaster. Brawn starting designing the current car late '07 and all development on Honda's car last year ended very early. It would be great to see them place well (or win) this weekend.

Agreed. I'd love to see a privateer team winning again. I like the 1990s CART model where privateer teams bought engines and chassis from several independent suppliers. Honda has always performed better solely as a engine supplier. Many a CART and F1 championship were won under the "Powered by Honda" badge.

That said, I think I am correct in saying that Honda has been a bit short on horsepower for the last several years. I have a suspiscion that a Honda powered Brawn may not be going as quickly as the Brawn Mercedes.

[Lane]

Originally Posted by kwokjk

That's kinda what I don't get. Most people at work are saying how Brawn is making Honda look bad cause Honda couldn't do as good... but isn't it silly to compare when the engine and tires are different and so are the chasis rules??? I guess they say the speedtv commenator's agree with them... I'll leave that one alone if they believe those guys.

Missed this post - I agree with the guys at the water cooler. Honda was down on power and the Merc is a big factor in Brawn's success. Would you rather have the engine that just won a championship or the Honda engine? It's an easy answer.

[Canada ALMS fan]

I will have to disagree Lane. The Honda engine may not have been the most powerful but in the Super Aguri (another weak chassis) it showed enough grunt to overtake some of the big boys. The Mercedes engine is probably superior but to shoehorn it into the chassis so late in the development curve of the car (Jan '09) surely there were compromises made so that it may have no net benefit over the engine the car was originally designed around. IE. You MAY gain a few horsepower, but how are the aero and the suspension of the car affected? I'm not an engineer, just thinking out loud. Bottom line, don't attribute the Brawn pace to the engine, the car has a great design and a great rear diffuser.

[Lane]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

I will have to disagree Lane. The Honda engine may not have been the most powerful but in the Super Aguri (another weak chassis) it showed enough grunt to overtake some of the big boys. The Mercedes engine is probably superior but to shoehorn it into the chassis so late in the development curve of the car (Jan '09) surely there were compromises made so that it may have no net benefit over the engine the car was originally designed around. IE. You MAY gain a few horsepower, but how are the aero and the suspension of the car affected? I'm not an engineer, just thinking out loud. Bottom line, don't attribute the Brawn pace to the engine, the car has a great design and a great rear diffuser.

Well, the disagreement isn't all that significant because we'd both like to see Brawn win. Also, I agree the chassis is probably the principle reason for Brawn's pace in testing. What I had said previously was that the Merc was a "big factor" in their success and that a Brawn Merc is probably faster than a Brawn Honda - I still think that's a fair statement. Is there really some dispute as to whether the Merc is an improvement over Honda?

By the way, I notice you didn't answer the question. Would CanadaALMSFanGP (you need a better name for your F1 team) buy engines from Merc or Honda?

---edit---

I knew I had read this somewhere:

The fact the Mercedes F0108W engine (+ 45 bhp) has come to replace that of Honda is obviously a great boost as well. Simulations (in Brackley) with comparative data regarding cornering speeds, acceleration and topspeeds point out that even with last year's car Button and Barrichello would have made it to Q3 during each GP in case they would have had a different engine.

- F1Network.net

[Canada ALMS fan]

LOL. We're on the same page. The MB engine is preferential to the Honda, no doubt. The chassis is a beauty is all I was sayin' I knew the Renault was down on power but not so much the Honda.

[kwokjk]

Wow, Brawn one two on the starting grid.