Cadillac returning to the ALMS

[John Thawley]

Autoweek is reporting/speculating...

Cadillac eyes ALMS return

Cadillac could return to the American Le Mans Series in 2009 as part of a major reorganization of General Motors' sports-car attack over the next two years.

Cadillac last competed in the series with its Northstar prototype in 2002. Its return hinges on Chevrolet graduating from the GT1 class to prototypes with a Corvette built to the new Le Mans LMP evo rules (Competition, Nov. 5). Cadillac then would move into GT1 or GT2 with a fixed-roof version of its XLR roadster.

Cadillac withdrew recently from the Speed World Challenge (Competition, Oct. 29) because the CTS-V it campaigned for the past four years is out of production. A 2009 XLR entry would make sense because it would coincide with a facelift of the roadster. A move into GT racing would be relatively simple for Cadillac and Pratt & Miller, which masterminds all of GM's major road-racing campaigns. The XLR borrows heavily from the road-going Corvette and uses the same chassis.

A GT entry could be as straightforward as fitting the existing Corvette C6.R race car with new bodywork and a race version of Cadillac's V8 engine. A GT2 program could benefit from the Corvette being developed for that class by Riley Technologies (Competition, Oct. 15), which has close links with GM and Pratt & Miller.

GM Racing's official line is that all of its racing operations are up for review. A final decision on the Corvette LMP evo project is expected within a month; an announcement might come at the same time as Chevy confirms its return to GT1 in 2008.

[Canada ALMS fan]

IF the Corvettes leave GT1 and move up to LMP2 and the XLR comes in as a GT2 could that be the end of 2 GT classes? Why not leave the C6.R's in GT1 and race the XLR's against them? This provides some competition in GT1 and GM is ensured victory every race. Plus, this could entice other entrants into the class. Surely this would provide value to GM as they could have 2 programs sharing the same chassis, etc. just with different bodies. The incremental cost of 2 additional cars is minimal as opposed to running a prototype and a GT program concurrently.

[Nick Koske]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

IF the Corvettes leave GT1 and move up to LMP2 and the XLR comes in as a GT2 could that be the end of 2 GT classes?

I think Corvettes move would be to LMP1, as P&M/GM have said that they'd like an overall at LeMans

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

IF Why not leave the C6.R's in GT1 and race the XLR's against them?

I don't think you will ever see two factory effort from the same manufacturer racing against each other in the same class. Sure one or the other might win, good for GM I suppose but at the expense of there other brand...it seems to be a 'rob Peter to pay Paul' sort of situation.

What I find more interesting about this article is that Riley Technologies has 'close links' (what ever that means) to P&M and GM...I wonder how close the links are?? The gives me some hope that the GT2 Vette will have a better showing than the Vipers.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Canada ALMS fan

IF the Corvettes leave GT1 and move up to LMP2 and the XLR comes in as a GT2 could that be the end of 2 GT classes? Why not leave the C6.R's in GT1 and race the XLR's against them? This provides some competition in GT1 and GM is ensured victory every race. Plus, this could entice other entrants into the class. Surely this would provide value to GM as they could have 2 programs sharing the same chassis, etc. just with different bodies. The incremental cost of 2 additional cars is minimal as opposed to running a prototype and a GT program concurrently.

Providing the car that beats your own, albeit a different brand, is not very good brand management. The exercise here is to be the winner. Now every time you race your two brands against each other one of them has to lose, and that is not conducive to promoting the second/losing brand to the market. It would actually be better IMO to sponsor a second team of Vettes that way you always have a winning product, or at least not creating a loser within yourself.


edit: beat me to it Nick. I type too slow!!

[Canada ALMS fan]

Nick & Horndawg, I agree with all you are saying. Unfortunately manufacturers don't always make sense (Ford??) with their racing decisions and look at it too much from a cost view vs. a return on investment perspective. I was merely loking at it from the view that those in a boardroom who couldn't care less about racing as anything other than a form of marketing might have. If racing is engrained into the soul of a brand that can be very powerful to consumers. Porsche clearly gets it, Ferrari was founded on it, GM I'm not so sure. Maybe I'm just unreallistically hoping GT1 will get better again?

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by Nick Koske

I think Corvettes move would be to LMP1, as P&M/GM have said that they'd like an overall at LeMans



I don't think you will ever see two factory effort from the same manufacturer racing against each other in the same class. Sure one or the other might win, good for GM I suppose but at the expense of there other brand...it seems to be a 'rob Peter to pay Paul' sort of situation.

What I find more interesting about this article is that Riley Technologies has 'close links' (what ever that means) to P&M and GM...I wonder how close the links are?? The gives me some hope that the GT2 Vette will have a better showing than the Vipers.

Well the first and most prominent example I can think of as to the close ties is that Riley was at one time part of Riley&Scott of GM's Cadillac Northstar LMP program.

Mulsanne's Corner: 2000 Cadillac Northstar LMP Technical Description

Mulsanne's Corner: 2001 Cadillac Northstar LMP01

[John Thawley]

Believe me, the Corvette Nation would burn down the Detroit Renaissance Center if they allowed a Cadillac to beat the Corvette.

They would NEVER risk tarnishing the Corvette performance legacy. It's GM's flagship of all things performance. And... not matter how comfortable they build Corvettes, it is always capped off with PERFORMANCE. They are not going to abandon that..

America has a long standing (over 50 years) love affair with the Corvette. After all, ain't nobody ever written a love song about a Toyota.

JT

[bullitt_60]

I find the XLR a strange choice. The new CTS is beautiful and the upcoming CTS, from everything I've heard, will be a coupe. The CTS has a more mass market appeal than the XLR. If BMW returns in '09 this would also provide direct track competition for the M3.

[HORNDAWG]

Originally Posted by bullitt_60

I find the XLR a strange choice. The new CTS is beautiful and the upcoming CTS, from everything I've heard, will be a coupe. The CTS has a more mass market appeal than the XLR. If BMW returns in '09 this would also provide direct track competition for the M3.

Curious as to why you would find the XLR as a "strange choice" since it shares the well developed and race proven chassis with the Corvette? Versus the CTS which is a new offering and if it is to be offered in coupe form will probably be quite respectable on the new VE platform w/ the Caddy FE3 package but there are several things to consider. First and foremost is the apparent shift in brand marketing at GM. The Cadillac campaign seems to be shifting back to personal luxary with performance as a base vs. the opposite that has been the previous tact. Also in the mix is the fact that Pontiac is in the process of switching back to all RWD platforms and is being put forth as the Performance Brand at GM. That leaves the XLR as Cadillac's offering of SportsPerformance w/Luxary vs the brand as a whole now being ushered towards Luxary w/Performance.

Also is the fact that even though it may be quite respectable it will have a huge hill to climb to go up against true Sports Cars. Cars that are designed from the beginning with performance as the ultimate goal. The Caddy CTS just does not match up well with the ALMS (ACO) current ruleset in the way of performance. It gives away way to much in weight, weight dist, CoG and aero just to start with. Under the ruleset of SWC it was/is a very competitive car but that chassis would not even be allowed off the trailer for an ALMS race! Just food for thought, IMO.

[bullitt_60]

Originally Posted by HORNDAWG

Curious as to why you would find the XLR as a "strange choice" since it shares the well developed and race proven chassis with the Corvette? Versus the CTS which is a new offering and if it is to be offered in coupe form will probably be quite respectable on the new VE platform w/ the Caddy FE3 package but there are several things to consider. First and foremost is the apparent shift in brand marketing at GM. The Cadillac campaign seems to be shifting back to personal luxary with performance as a base vs. the opposite that has been the previous tact. Also in the mix is the fact that Pontiac is in the process of switching back to all RWD platforms and is being put forth as the Performance Brand at GM. That leaves the XLR as Cadillac's offering of SportsPerformance w/Luxary vs the brand as a whole now being ushered towards Luxary w/Performance.

Also is the fact that even though it may be quite respectable it will have a huge hill to climb to go up against true Sports Cars. Cars that are designed from the beginning with performance as the ultimate goal. The Caddy CTS just does not match up well with the ALMS (ACO) current ruleset in the way of performance. It gives away way to much in weight, weight dist, CoG and aero just to start with. Under the ruleset of SWC it was/is a very competitive car but that chassis would not even be allowed off the trailer for an ALMS race! Just food for thought, IMO.

I believe that the new CTS was designed for performance vs. luxury as much as any BMW on the market. The new CTS-V will lay the hammer down on the M5. The image I have of an XLR is a luxo-cruiser. If I want performance, I'll buy a z06 for the same price!

I agree that the car would have development issues, including aerodynamic issues...but BMW has always had those as well. Weight could also be an issue as the CTS is a porker. However, if those problems could be overcome the market appeal and advertising would go much further with the CTS. You may not be able to buy an XLR or a V-series but a CTS is within many people's grasp.